Flight Model

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Flight Model

Post  madpinger on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:59 am

The only thing that bothers me about the flight model after thinking it over and playing some, is the lack of maneuver jets. Why can my ship only provide thrust in one direction ?

I'd much rather be able to apply thrust in all directions, even if it is reduced thrust compared to my main engines.

That's all I can really gripe about currently. I'll find more :p
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Re: Flight Model

Post  Paul Dryere on Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:37 pm

There are plenty of archetype abilities that allow thrust to be applied in any direction, if you want maneuverability I would recommend the Fighter class. Smile
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Re: Flight Model

Post  madpinger on Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:44 pm

Ya, I thought it's movement skill was nice. Possible to have an equip that just allows you thrust control ?
I could see how it would work into the existing system. Heat, etc.

I just have this habit of coasting as I straf a target, and well. You have to be pointed at them to aim.
So, all your thrust has to be applied before you can begin aiming at them. I'm experimenting, but I still find myself wanting to be able to adjust my course independent of my forward facing direction.

At the least, I can say from what I know of the game and its lore, that maneuvering thrusters would not be an insane or overpowered ability. Heck, Gravity maneuvering engine. That'd be nifty Surprised
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Re: Flight Model

Post  EvilNinjadude on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:32 am

The Fighters currently have the Directional Thrusters archetype ability. If you're fresh from a game like SPAZ, where it's standard for all ships, the steering mode is all you have to get used to.

I bound my Archetype modifier to lAlt by the way, it's easier to reach with the Thumb.
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Re: Flight Model

Post  madpinger on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:34 am

I know about the fighter archtype abilities.
That is not the solution to my feedback :p

The Fighter's movement ability is more like a rogue shadow stepping imo.
It's not fine movement control at any rate.
Yes, spaz had thrusters.

The Fighter is more like a rogue imo. High agility, quick dagger like lasers.
The Rogue is more an assassin. Stealth, surprise, etc.
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Re: Flight Model

Post  ECDryere on Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:14 pm

There are a few reasons why we went with the Newtonian model; it's not just for realism or to be true to old school games like Subspace and Silent Death Online. The most important quality of the Newtonian model is predictability.

Limiting player's mobility and capacity for reaction allows slower-traveling weaponry, like rockets or summoned comets, to be more feasible, so it's an important factor in allowing us to push the game play variety as much as we have. Otherwise, I fear everyone would have to resort to lasers and other instant-travel weaponry to be competitive.

Predictability is also crucial to net code. The more sudden and multi-directional the movement is, the more difficult it becomes to predict. This results in jerky motion. The common alternative is not to predict motion, but rather to just smooth it across time. In that scenario, you're never actually seeing where the player is. You mentioned "Shadow Step," so I'm guessing you played WoW; that's how they handled it, which is why you sometimes had to run ahead of the avatar a bit to hit them, even with their generous range on melee. Also, if you've ever played an FPS, you've probably had the experience of running around a corner for cover, only to have the guy in the previous room still gun you down, as if the wall didn't exist. This is because he is still shooting an image of you that is as old as your latency to him, which in a server-based game can be significant since you have to add your latency and his.

That being said. Having an engine that will smoothly apply thrust in any direction independent of your aim is something that we've talked about for an archetype ability -- a "right-stick" ability. This works well with a controller, but not with a mouse and keyboard, but if we can come up with a way to implement it without having to radically effect the game's control scheme, we will. In the meantime, you might want to try Directional Thrusters under Fighter's Agile Drive node, which are similar to this, except that they provide their thrust in bursts rather than constantly.
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Re: Flight Model

Post  madpinger on Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:01 am

Hmm, Well. I guess I'll have to see if I can think up anything to help you solve the control scheme, I want that archtype.

I can't do anythign about the complications it introduces with your net code tho.
I sadly, Do grasp client side motion prediction, client syncing, etc. No one said it was fun all the time to dev a game Wink

As a player, I genuinely want this archtype added. So, I'll update my post once I've had time to review the alpha demo to affirm the current control schema with focus on a control pad. So long as the controller side works you can take your time to improve the Alternative control models.

I recall it being said that one of your design choices was to balance the sum shortcuts, etc to work with a controller. I also recall it being posted that improvements I've not seen in the current kb/mouse control have been updated in your dev builds.

Anyway, I'm sure a few ideas can be worked out to resolve control schema.

I'll get back to ya on it ^.^
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Re: Flight Model

Post  EvilNinjadude on Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:56 am

If you're going to explain Latency, just say "Facestab" and have it over with.

By the way, this thread was what gave me the Idea of having a ship without an engine. I fly it using the Agile Drive only. lol!
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